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Mix Margaret Dylan Jones

W.A. composer, pianist, teacher, article writer

Transcription of story
about Margaret Jones,
broadcast on national television
20 July 2004
on George Negus Tonight (GNT).
Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)

The page, is no longer maintained by the ABC and has been removed.

GNT Episode 94
Mx Jones

Broadcast 6.30pm on 20/07/2004
    Margaret Jones    
      Mx Jones, 'Pursuit of Happiness', 20th July, 2004

Somedays you can put on clothes or do your hair and you just don't feel right. Something doesn't fit, isn't sitting correctly and you just don't feel good about yourself – not as confident as usual. If it's clothes, that's easy you can change them, if it's your hair you can get it cut or re-styled. But imagine if it was your own gender that felt like it didn't belong. That sums up the life story of Mx. Margaret Jones. Margaret is an Androgyne, she was born male but always felt female and in her late thirties decided to do something about it. In a frank and open interview she tells Jane Cunningham all about it.

        Margaret Jones            
          Magaret, having coffee [pic]
JANE CUNNINGHAM, REPORTER: Some days you can put on clothes or do your hair and something doesn't feel right - it doesn't fit or it isn't sitting correctly. If it's your clothes, that's easy. You can change them. If it's your hair, you can have it cut or restyled. But imagine if it was your own gender that felt like it didn't belong. SOMBRE PIANO MUSIC

MARGARET JONES: Sometimes I feel very male and sometimes I feel very female, but usually I feel androgyne.


MARGARET JONES: Androgyne is a term that I use for myself. 'Andro' pertains to male and 'gyne' pertains to female, so it means 'man-woman', if you like.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: It must be extraordinary living in your head.

MARGARET JONES: Well, perhaps it is but that's where I live. (Laughs) I think it's natural for people to want to be one - to be whole. And some years ago - a few years ago - I sort of realised that perhaps that was a mistake. Perhaps instead of trying to be one, I should enjoy being three.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: Which you are.

MARGARET JONES: I often think of that. I tell people, "Look, if I haven't got something done by Friday, know, there's only three of me."

When I was a young kid, under the age of five, I realised that I wasn't quite like other people. And I, at some point early on - pretty young, even younger than that - I realised that I was supposed to be a boy...but also thought I looked very much like a girl, and this made me very unhappy. I was very annoyed, very distressed.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: Where did you associate, then, in the playground?

MARGARET JONES: Oh, on my own. I was a pretty lonesome kid. I had very few friends, yeah.

(FOOTAGE OF MARGARET PLAYING PIANO) [playing my own composition, Androgyne Adagio].

MARGARET JONES: When I was a kid, I just hated being photographed. I absolutely hated it, so there are almost no photographs.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: You almost look like you're not in these photos.

MARGARET JONES: Interesting, isn't it?



MARGARET JONES: As I grew older, into my teens, and my body started to masculinise, then it was very distressing for the other way round, because my body was masculinising, and that was very, very distressing. I wanted it to stay feminine. I think I sort of grew up in a fairly gender-neutral way. I didn't do all the macho things and there was no pressure to do that. And I just kept it all to myself.


MARGARET JONES: I've been on the lookout for a really cherry, sort of brandy colour.


MARGARET JONES: I would buy some feminine clothes sometimes and wear them in private and then throw them away, hoping that I could stop doing that, as if it was some sort of disease or something, which it certainly isn't, but you think of it like that.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: That must have been lonely.

MARGARET JONES: Yes. It's a stress.'s an ongoing stress. It's a DIStress. (Laughs)

JANE CUNNINGHAM: Is it still distressing for you?

MARGARET JONES: No, not now.


MARGARET JONES: But that's because I've done something about it and I've done quite a bit to transition - to make my body more feminine in appearance. The stress is lifelong until you do something about it. And I felt that I either had to break or break through. I started taking moves on it when I was about 38. It felt tremendously reckless, I might tell you, to take oestrogen. Oh, this was just...big-time reckless move. I thought, "Oh, I'm going to wreck my liver, you know, and if I transition, I'll lose all my work and everyone will reject me, and - who knows? - I might die of some disease, from cancer, or something." So it was the most reckless thing I ever did in my life. And I'm a really cautious person. But, oh, gee, I'm glad I did.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: I'd like to think that society is pretty tolerant, but being different from the crowd is no easy thing. To make a transition from being male to something else as an adult must be one of the most difficult and courageous decisions anybody could make. Having made it, all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best.

MARGARET JONES: I was desperate. And that's why people do this - because you expect to have a lot of trouble with it. Nobody will transition thinking it's going to be easy. Everybody expects it to be really difficult, and it can be. Um, and some people suffer and have a lot of trouble with it. In my case, I've done very well. The biggest thing is acceptance and...being able tell people...what your situation is. That is a big step for most transgender or transsexual people. Yeah.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: What about your family?

MARGARET JONES: Well, they were the hardest ones. (Laughs) I think the people that are closest to you are the ones who find it most difficult. And, er, they all call me Margaret. I've spent a lot of time with my eldest brother these days, actually, and he's a born-again Christian and I think he disapproves, but he loves me and so he doesn't hassle me about it and he calls me Margaret. People often think that someone with gender issues must be confused about their gender, especially if they say that they're not strictly male or strictly female - they're some sort of mixture of some sort. They often think that...that must be a sign of confusion or you are ambiguous about your gender. I'm not. I know what I am. I'm an androgyne and that's not confusing to me anymore and it's not ambiguous. That's not an ambiguous gender. That's a gender.

JANE CUNNINGHAM: Do you feel like some sort of...? You've been released out of a trap?

MARGARET JONES: Absolutely. Oh, yeah, that's a very good way of looking at it. Oh, yes, yes, yeah. Bit like being in the cage, you know, and someone's opened the door.

GEORGE NEGUS: Some pretty clear thinking there. You could say that this entire happiness thing is to do with self-image and knowing where you fit into the societal scheme, which is not always that easy.

My major article about Mx or Mix, a non-binary transgender honorific title:

About Mx, with Miss, Mrs, Mr, Ms,

and the singular they

Mix Margaret Dylan Jones, MusB (UWA), DipEd, LTCL, ATCL, AMusTCL, AMusA. Pianist, accompanist, composer. Teacher of piano, singing, theory, in the Perth area, Western Australia. Associate Composer, AMC. WWC Check. Using the non-binary transgender honorific title Mx (or Mix) since 2002.


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